I am focusing on what I think was the best of the things you had to say about determining prophetic validity, knowing them by their fruits.

Jesus said those who not follow Him face the wrath of God.

Smith said—Jesus is telling the truth. Follow Jesus.

Smith meets the Biblical standard of “prophet.”

 

 This is indeed in the Bible, but it is not saying that to determine good or evil one must check the Bible. Jesus didn't even have the Bible and his listeners were mostly illiterate anyway.

Jesus told everyone who would listen to: follow Him.

Smith said the same thing.

 

Smith did NOT meet the Biblical standard, but this is not because he practiced polygamy. It is because he married the wives of other men. See Leviticus 18 for example to see this condemned.

Might as well have the smoking gun be: Smith ate bacon. Its prohibited in Leviticus.

Jacob married sisters. Leviticus contradicts other parts of the Bible.

Smith was a Christian, and as such was not subject to Levitical law, as “the law” ended at the crucifixion.

And the women who claim marital contact with Smith in polygamy were not married.

“Smith did not follow Levitical law perfectly!” The bible contradicts the Bible. Leviticus contradicts other parts. Smith did not murder brides on their wedding night, either.

 

Now you may say that it was ok because it wasn't a real marriage involving sex, but the evidence indicates that this is not the case. Lyons' wife told her daughter that Smith was her father but DNA indicates that her father was the woman's legal husband.

You are repeating a second hand story that is contradicted by solid historical evidence. Sure, and DNA evidence, too.

 

Thus she was having sex with two men within about a month.

That is not what the historical record indicates.

 

One does not have children without sex.

She birthed her husbands child. And you are repeating second hand information as if it is first hand information.

I linked to trusted historical sources earlier. You chose to ignore them.

 

 

Such intrusion into the marriage of another man was a "sin against God" in Gen. 39 and a capital offense in Leviticus.

Marrying children and slavery was not a capital offense.

Just making sure we are reading from the same Bible.

Christians do not utilize Levitical Law. Not being a virgin on her wedding night was also a capital offense in Leviticus. Its good the Bible contradicts the Bible and swaths are ignored.

Smiths relations of a Biblical nature? Within polygamy.

 

 

This included sex with a woman who was engaged to be married. I sent you a link to a very good discussion by Vogel.

I sent you a link to trusted historians who are clear that what you are claiming is settled historically—is not.

 

 

However, if you are determined to ignore all of this, then you are still faced with Brigham Young's adultery with Henry Jacobs' wife.

Asked and answered. You are bringing in Young as a red herring.

She made a choice, and went with Young.

And women in the Bible had no choice. Weird that bothers you.

 

You are still faced with the glaring contradiction between what Smith was doing with other men's wives and Section 101 which was the law of the church at that time.

Which is an evidence to historians that Smith did not engage in Biblical relations with Married women.

You know that is what historians turn to as a clue that Smiths sealings to married women was not of a Biblical nature.

You know that, right?

 

Marriage vows made earlier are sacred and fulfilled.

Polygamy and concubines were a form of marriage in the Bible.

 No true prophet from the Bible ever did this that I know of.

Jacob married sisters.

There is murder and abuse all throughout the Bible by Gods anointed.

Gods anointed did not give women a choice in the Bible.

God does not set a marriage age in the Bible.

 

 It was what a couple of false prophets did in Jeremiah 29. It was what Hophni and Phineas did. True prophets denounce these things.

Like slavery? Like marrying young women? Like murdering women and children? No. No, you are engaging in hyperbole.

Gods anointed did not denounce polygamy, did not denounce slavery, did not denounce marrying young women.

 

They are not involved in them. You say that the prophets did worse things like murder. Who? None of the ones who are certainly real individuals like the literary prophets. We know Micah existed, for example.

God condones the murder of women and children in the Bible.

The same (in creedal trinitarian thought) Jesus who claims those who do not follow Him face Gods wrath.

Prophets supported and condoned murder of innocents, slavery, and women being property.

“There is nothing worse in the Bible than Smith and polygamy.” Plenty of worse in the Bible.

 

How do we know? We have the book he wrote. But Elijah and Moses and Abraham are all literary figures who are written about by anonymous people long after their time. There is a lot of mythology in the Bible.

The Bible was Smiths moral and ethical guide.

Smith also does NOT meet the Biblical standard because he went about slandering women calling them whores when they were not.

Ok, I showed you the source on that already. No one believes it actually happened.

 

Now… Show me a published, academically-accepted historian who accepts this as factual. The onus is on you here.

 

"Thou shalt not bear witness against thy neighbor" is what God says about this. There is no possible argument that this did not take place since the slanders were too widely reported, some even appearing in the Newspaper.

It likely did not happen historically.

Now… Link to an academically accepted historian who has published academically who is willing to say this actually happened.

 

 I think that often the slanders came from Smith's cronies but he made some himself.

The onus is on you to link to an article from a trusted source.

I showed you where it came from originally. You choose not to accept the truth.

 

Smith's polygamy is not what disqualifies him. As you keep saying, polygamy is biblical.

Polygamy is Biblical.

So is slavery and women being property. Things Jesus could have fixed but chose not to.

You claim things as fact when they are not.

 

It is his adultery and slander of others which does that.

God lies in the Bible. And the Bible contradicts the Bible. Jesus makes false prophecies in the Bible.

But… your sources are off here. And I have shown you.

 

It is his slander of women and overt lies which disqualify him.

God lies in the Bible. Jesus makes false prophecies and condemns those who do not follow Him.

Smith lied? Not in the case you cite here.

But lying would not be a disqualifier. Smith meets the Biblical standard of “prophet.”

 It is because his fruits were evil.

Jesus condemns those to the wrath of God for not following Him. Smiths fruits are clear: follow Christ.

 

They were evil by a Biblical standard.

No. Not actually.

There is some serious evil condoned by God in the Bible.

Its an honest curiosity that you don’t condemn Smith for marrying underage women—Because the Bible makes no mention of that.

Its Levitical law. Which Jacob does not follow in marrying sisters in the Bible. Romans 10:4 says, “Christ is the end of the law.” Colossians 2:13-14 says that God “forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.”

Levitical Law? Got nailed to the cross. Might as well condemn Smith for not murdering not-virgin wives on their wedding night or for eating bacon.

“Smith was sealed to not-married women!” Sure. And historians point to the historical narrative being non-existant to weak that it involved Biblical relations.

 They were evil by the standards of the Book of Mormon.

That’s not the standard of the thread. Smith meets the Biblical standard of “prophet.

The Book of Mormon condemns polygamy. The Bible does not.

They were evil by the standards of the Doctrine and Covenants,

That is not the standard of the thread. 132 allows for polygamy as much so as the Bible.

Smith meets the Biblical standard of “prophet.”

even including Section 132,

Smith gave a carve-out in 132 that aligns with the Bible in removing the choice of the women.

And they were evil according to the law in Illinois.

The standard of the thread is the Bible. Smith meets the -Biblical- (not Illinois) standard of “Prophet.”