bullshit in a bunch of ways

Its true. Smith and Young literally believed the Bible to be literal truth.

Its true. But there is another truth—the Bible is a horrific ethical and moral guide.

 

has lots of the same problems of "we just don't understand why god chose to tell joseph to marry who he did, but they had to do it because god said" just passing the buck to avoid accountability

Polygamy is not a sin in the Bible. Polygamy and concubines are part of the Biblical definition of “marriage.”

There just isn’t any way around that.

 

 

smith and young had no problem outright upstaging the bible for their own new hot take, let alone negotiating with the bible like anybody else. they followed themselves to pick and choose what they wanted out of the bible. if they'd wanted to do better they could have

That is not unique to Smith and Young.

The Bible contradicts the Bible.

The serious things—polygamy for Smith and Young. Marrying young women—those things are not sins in the Bible.

The Bible is a horrific moral and ethical guide.

There is no defense for women not having rights. But the Bible does not give them rights.

There is no defense for marrying young women. But the Bible does not set the age limit and historians say young women were married at an unrepeatable age. Less than Smiths and Youngs (undefendable) marriages to young women.

But—the Bible is silent on the marriage age for young women.

It is not silent on polygamy, not silent on killing innocent women and children, and not silent on slavery.

 

my "women marriage age in the Bible" background reading leads me to believe that young marriages were usually to partners closer in age than smith's biggest gap let alone young's, which could easily have raised eyebrows in bible times,

This is some extreme conjecture and hyperbole.

Polygamy was normative in the Bible and the marital age for young women was extremely young. Unrepeatably young. The “women marriage age in the Bible” was below the youngest marriage age for Smith and Young.

That is not a justification.

The Bible is a horrible ethical and moral guide.

 

and it's not like the bible say god tells people they have to do age gaps. but ok probably the ancient world could do with big gaps especially for leaders and rich guys (what with lots of ancient sex attitudes being half about women as sexual property of husband anyway), even if true that's not even the end of it

Polygamy and concubines were normative in the Bible.

Historians put the marriage age for young women in the Bible at an unspeakably low age.

 

by the early 1800s lots of people had better judgment than smith and young brought to this. hell by the early christian church people had better judgment than smith and young brought to this. claiming to be prophets morally ahead of society is embarrassing regressing before that.

Some aspects of the restoration match early Christianity.

Baptism for the dead took place in early Christianity.

Early Christians were not creedal trinitarians.

Early Christians believed in deification/theosis.

But polygamy? That is from the Old Testament. The Bible. Where it was normative.

 

 

post focuses on age but when talking this out it goes way deeper, it is a problem easy to touch with pedo labels but holy hell the problems go lots different than that:

There is no marriage age set for young women in the Bible.

Today? Jail. Back in the Bible? No one wrote it down.

The Bible is a horrific ethical and moral guide.

 

 sneaking behind existing spouses back

How is that not Biblical?

Women have no say in the Bible. Women are property in the Bible. Women have no choice in marriage in the Bible.

You can say, “my personal ethics and morality say that Smith not telling Emma was ethically and morally wrong.” But you can’t point to a Bible verse that condemns that. Women are property of men in the Bible. Smith not telling Emma? That is in line with the Bible.

 

, or telling their spouse god says they have to accept a marriage or polygamy or be destroyed,

The Bible condemns that?

Jesus says that anyone who does not learn of Him and Follow Him will be destroyed in the New Testament.

Jesus (in the creedal trinitarian sense) murders innocent women and children in the Old Testament.

The Bible condemns people to Gods judgement in the Bible for not following Him. That’s a thing.

It does not jive with your ethics and morality…? That is because the Bible is a horrific ethical and moral guide.

 

 or telling a new target that they have to do this or god will kill them, or telling a new target that if they say yes it will save them and all their family. you don't find that stuff in the bible

Actually, you do. You do see those things in the Bible.

I am convinced you have not read the Bible.

People were murdered –per the Bible—for not following Noah on his boat. Women and children.

Jesus murdered (in the creedal trinitarian sense) women and children in the Bible in multiple instances for not following Gods anointed.

I am convinced you have not actually read the Bible.

“Jesus is loving and kind, and only ever loving and kind.” Jesus condemned –in the New Testament—those who do not have faith in Him to Gods judgement.

The truth—the Bible is a horrific ethical and moral guide.

 

you bend other things out of shape to make a case for it

No. Not at all.

Polygamy and concubines are normative in the Bible.

Women are property in the Bible. “Smith went behind Emmas back” does not  violate any Biblical scripture. Per the Bible Emma is Smiths property. She has no say in who Smith engages in polygamy with. Per the Bible.

 

People sometimes choose polygamy? Fine, especially if they’re old enough to stand on their feet and understand their options. People sometimes choose age gaps? Better if they’re out of their teens

Polygamy is evil. Its evil in the Bible and its evil in Latter Day Saint history. And its evil today.

It is abusive to women.

But it does not violate Biblical teachings.

 

 

Smith and young couldn’t understand that because “the bible” or “different times”? more accountability dodging, more shifting goalposts where one minute we have to follow what they say because they speak for god but the next minute when they’ve obviously got stuff unbelievably wrong and set society back centuries we just have to let it go because mistakes were made you can’t expect them to do better

Smith and Young clearly did wrong.

Polygamy is wrong.

Marrying young women is wrong.

Smith is clearly a sinner in need of the grace of Christ. So is Young.

There is no ethical or moral defense for Smith or Young. Except that their actions are not condemned in the Bible.

Polygamy? Not condemned in the Bible. Gods anointed did it in the Bible.

Marrying young women? Not condemned in the Bible.

Creating more scripture? That’s a thing Bible writers did. I am just not seeing any glaring thing from the Bible that condemns Smith and Young. Their worst actions align with Biblical norms of Bible, “prophets.”