An analysis of the five minute anti-Latter day Saint hit piece. Lets see if Mike Winger is honest and accurate...
Mike Winger:
"Let me read to you from an article on LDS.org called "Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham" this is the official position... I'll read to you word-for-word. "mArMan and non-MarMan Egyptologists agree"
Lets see if he tells the truth that he is going to read (his words) "word for word." He paused before he said, "mArMan and non-MarMan Egyptologists agree..."
Here is what it states.... "None of the characters on the papyrus fragments mentioned Abraham’s name or any of the events recorded in the book of Abraham. Latter-day Saint and non-Latter-day Saint Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham..."
It was funny to see him almost read "word for word." But he did not want to actually read (his words) "word for word" because that would mean that he would actually have to use the name of the Church.
So... Is Mike Winger honest and accurate? Did he read, "word for word?" No.
Did he provide false and misleading information when he said he was going to read, "word for word?" Yes.
The name, "mArMan" for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not used in the "Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham" not once. But yet Mike Winger reads it (falsely) as if it is.
Why?
Mike Winger:
(from the document) "though there is not unanimity, even among non-Latter-day Saint scholars, about the proper interpretation of the vignettes on these fragments." "Now that is kind of a cop-out because what they are really saying is we are not really sure what every piece of these fragments means. Ok, fine but we know for sure it does not mean that... (from the document) "Scholars have identified the papyrus fragments as parts of standard funerary texts that were deposited with mummified bodies. These fragments date to between the third century B.C.E. and the first century C.E., long after Abraham lived."
"So, LDS.org comes out and states "these things are not true. We know thest things are not true."
First of all, it is a complete fabrication for Mike Winger to state the Church states, "these things are not true. We know these things are not true."
That is a complete fabrication. That is not in the document, "Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham." The Church states repeatedly that the Book of Abraham is true scripture.
Mike Winger reads from the document (changing the name of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to mArMan to show his ass). But then stops quoting from the Church document and starts mind-reading when the document actually explains why scholars can identify the text as funerary texts and it is also scripture...
"Of course, the fragments do not have to be as old as Abraham for the book of Abraham and its illustrations to be authentic. Ancient records are often transmitted as copies or as copies of copies. The record of Abraham could have been edited or redacted by later writers much as the Book of Mormon prophet-historians Mormon and Moroni revised the writings of earlier peoples. Moreover, documents initially composed for one context can be repackaged for another context or purpose. Illustrations once connected with Abraham could have either drifted or been dislodged from their original context and reinterpreted hundreds of years later in terms of burial practices in a later period of Egyptian history. The opposite could also be true: illustrations with no clear connection to Abraham anciently could, by revelation, shed light on the life and teachings of this prophetic figure.
Some have assumed that the hieroglyphs adjacent to and surrounding facsimile 1 must be a source for the text of the book of Abraham. But this claim rests on the assumption that a vignette and its adjacent text must be associated in meaning. In fact, it was not uncommon for ancient Egyptian vignettes to be placed some distance from their associated commentary.
Mike Wingers answer as to why the document can be seen as a funerary text by scholars but then also is considered scripture is in the next few paragraphs Mike Winger does not read.
Why did Mike Winger start speculating and postulating right when the article gave the answer he was claiming to seek?
Mike Winger not reading the explanation from the article is dishonest. As dishonest as him changing the name of the Church to "mArMan" when he read the official name of the Church.
Mike Winger had the answer in the article, he read from the article, then stopped reading when the article got to the answer he was claiming was important.
Just another example of him showing his dishonesty.
Mike Winger:
The article concludes with this phrase, the last thing they say, "The truth of the book of Abraham is ultimately found through careful study of its teachings, sincere prayer, and the confirmation of the Spirit." Thats how you really find out. Because in mArManIsM mArMan apologetics is built on one pillar: evidence doesnt matter just believe it."
Prayer and confirmation by the Spirit is spiritual and religious "evidence."
And there is plenty of defenders of the truths of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who find plenty of "evidence" to defend the teachings and beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ.
He is lying when he says, "evidence doesn't matter just believe it."
Seeking answers from God is "evidence."
And the paragraphs he failed to read from the article stated how there is "evidence."
And there are "apologetics" to the Church of Jesus Christ who defend "The Book of Abraham" with "evidence." Mike Winger is lying.
"40 Insights and Evidences on the Book of Abraham from Pearl of Great Price Central" [url=https://bookofmormoncentral.org/blog/40-insights-and-evidences-on-the-book-of-abraham-from-pearl-of-great-price-central]Link[/url]
Book of Mormon Central, Book of Abraham: [url=https://bookofmormoncentral.org/blog-tags/book-of-abraham]Link[/url]
Pearl of Great Price Central, Book of Abraham: [url=https://pearlofgreatpricecentral.org/category/book-of-abraham/]Link[/url]
So Mike Winger tells two lies here. "Evidence doesn't matter just believe it."
The first lie: Answer to prayer is religious and spiritual evidence.
The second lie: Defenders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Book of Abraham provide tangible, real "evidence" for their defense sometimes.
Mike Winger:
"evidence doesn't matter, just believe it. I could not be a MaRmAn because of this. I am only a Christian because when I researched the evidence and when I sought to find the proof for what I believed my questions were answered and I felt satisfied intellectually with those answers."
Unbelievable. "evidence doesn't matter, just believe it" is not a teaching of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
"Seek answers and evidence through prayer and seeking answers from God." That is an official teaching of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Here is a not-Latter day Saint intellectual Stephen H. Webb who took an -intellectual- look at our teachings and beliefs and came-away stating we got it right... [url=https://www.firstthings.com/article/2012/02/mormonism-obsessed-with-christ]Link[/url]
Here is where Mike Winger has to create a false strawman.
He states we don't have any "evidence" when he stopped reading from the document when it explained how it works that it can be a funerary text and also scripture at the same time. That is intellectually dishonest on his part.
He states we don't have any "evidence" when prayer and religious influence from God is an evidence.
Is there (tremendous, overwhelming, provable) "evidence" that the Bible contains errors, omissions, and mistakes? Yes. Mike Winger is creating a false standard here.
He is satisfied with the "evidence" for his beliefs. When the "evidence" is that there are errors, omissions, changes, and mistakes in the Bible.
Mike Winger:
I could never be a mArMan. And I can't imagine what it feels like to be raised as a mArMan and to hear stuff like this and then maybe to get mad at a guy like me and then go look into it and find that it is true and then your whole word is upside down right and you don't know what to believe. And they come to you and say, "take it on faith." "Just believe it, you know." "Pray that God will reveal to you that it is true." Even though it is not."
Did he just openly mock prayer?
There is lie, what number five...
He stopped reading the article when it explained how the text could be a funerary text and scripture. Then he mocks prayer and answers to prayer?
How do we know the Bible is true when it can be "proven" that it contains errors, mistakes, and omissions: take it on faith.
How do we explain the death and resurrection of Christ: take it on faith.
"Take it on faith" is a shared belief of -all- followers of Christ.
Mike Winger is creating a false standard that The Book of Abraham needs to be "taken on faith" but Creedal Christianity or The Bible does not. That is unbelievable mental and cognitive gymnastics on Mike Wingers part.
I am pretty sure Mike Winger just openly mocked prayer and faith. I am pretty sure that is what I watched just now.
Mike Winger:
"So, what do Egyptologists actually say about it? Because that is what I would want to know, right? "
What do Bible historians say about the Bible? They say it contains errors, mistakes, and omissions.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints acknowledges in the article, "Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham" that Egyptologists in and out of the Church don't see "The Book of Abraham" in the Papyri we possess.
The article also states why this is the case.
The scriptures don't say, "place your faith in Egyptologists and historians." The scriptures state (what Mike Winger mocks): "take it on faith."
Mike Winger is creating a false strawman here. First of all, the article states that Egyptologists can't find the Book of Abrham in the papyri we posses. The Church is open and honest about this.
Mike Winger lies when he states there isn't an explanation for that in the article.
Another false strawman is him trying to hold Egyptologists and historians over "take it on faith." That is a false strawman. "Take it on faith" is what believers should do.
There are also Egyptologists who defend the Book of Abraham. Mike Winger could have read from PhD Egyptologists Gee and Muhlsteen who have perspectives from PhD Egyptologists who have "evidence" for the Book of Abraham.
Mike Winger claims to seek "evidence" but leaves-out Gee and Muhlsteen? PhD Egyptologists? That does not make any sense.
Muhlsteen and Gee give "evidence" to the Book of Abraham: [url=https://bookofmormoncentral.org/blog/resources-from-egyptologists-for-studying-the-book-of-abraham-authenticity-translation]Link[/url]
If you honestly seek "evidence" for spiritual and religious truth then the answer is: take it on faith.
If you honestly seek evidence for the Book of Abraham from believing PhDs in Egyptology, you will find it in Gee and Muhlsteen and other believing Bible scholars. The evidence is there. Mike Winger just does not want to look at it and in the case of reading from, "Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham" he skips over the parts that would show he is not being honest and accurate.
Mike Winger told several open lies in the anti-Latter day Saint hit piece.
He did not read from the article, "word for word." He got tripped up when he almost read the actual name of the Church: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Mike Winger also lied when he stated, "these things are not true. We know these things are not true." The Church states over and over again that the Book of Abrahm is true scripture. Mike Winger lied.
Mike Winger lied when he stated, "mArMan apologetics is built on one pillar: evidence doesnt matter just believe it." Prayer and answer to prayer is "evidence." And he skipped-over the paragraphs in the article that provided "evidence" and there are PhD Egyptologists who find (real, tangible) "evidence" that The Book of Abraham is true. Mike Winger lied.
Mike Winger is being intellectually dishonest when he implies that there is "evidence" for his (Creedal) "Christian" beliefs but we don't have similar "evidence" in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for our beliefs. That is intellectual dishonesty on his part. Mike Winger is creating a false and misleading standard.
Mike Winger mocks answers to prayer and seeking answers from God in prayer. He might be a lot of things, but no true Christian mocks prayer and seeking answers from God in prayer.
Mike Winger creates a false and misleading standard when he states: "So, what do Egyptologists actually say about it? Because that is what I would want to know, right?" That is a false and misleading standard because there are faithful Latter-day Saint Egyptologists who have "evidence" for the Book of Abraham. And Mike Winger only quotes Egyptologists who prove his point. That is a false and misleading standard. There are two sides to the story, and Mike Winger only tells one, and he has to engage in cognitive gymnastics to get to the point.
If you adhere to the false belief that the Bible contains no errors, omissions, and mistakes and that it can be universally proven with science and history and that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is wrong, this kind of shallow hit-piece will appeal to you.
